Derrick Jones asks: Hi. I'm a pre-tribulationalist (believe the tribulation is in our future). But have been reading your posts. I'm wondering if you could tell me who the 144,000 in the book of Revelation are in your view? Are they or not, 12000 literal Jews from the 12 tribes?

Hi Derrick. Thanks for reading our work. We hope you find it helpful.

As to your question, we hold that this passage is in reference to what Romans 9:6-8 considers true Israel (believers), rather than Israel (non-believers).

The problem in difference of views, comes from a metaphor being ignored. Ignoring this metaphor, causes people to mistakenly think of the 144,000 as literal. This pattern of metaphor, is perfectly understood in Revelation 5:5-6, but ignored in Revelation 7:4-9.

Revelation 5:5 says "Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah".

Revelation 5:6 says "Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain".

Here we see the pattern: John was told (heard) see the Lion, but instead he saw a Lamb. This very pattern is used in Revelation 7:4-9.

Revelation 7:4 says, "Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel (Verses 5-8 describes the tribes equaling 144,000).

Revelation 7:9 says "After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb."

Again, John hears 144,000, but instead, saw an uncountable multitude, not just from the 12 tribes, but from every nation, every tribe, and every language.

Therefore, if this metaphor pattern is understood in proper context, then we see that in John's vision, he uses the number 144,000, to represent the number of completion of all who are saved, rather than a small hand full of Jews.

Lastly, in order to shed more light to this metaphor, we need to read Revelation 21. Here, John uses the imagery of a building (The New Jerusalem) to describe the Bride of Christ (the Church). In this imagery, the building is said to measure 12,000 stadias long, 12,000 stadias wide, and 12,000 stadias tall. Therefore, since the building is a perfect square made up of 12 lines measuring 12,000 stadias each, the measurement of the building 12,000x12 equals 144,000. Again, this number is used to represent the completion of all who are saved. The bride of Christ, who is the church.

Hope this helps. God bless you.

Comments:

Derrick Jones: Ok, I definitely see the pattern, but if that's the case, then why is it that they are sinless people. In our view, those literal Jews completely abstained from sin. In Revelation 14:5 it says that "No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless."

BRC Hosts Joey and Chris: Yes, but Romans 3:23 states "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," while, Colossians 1:22 states "He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach". Therefore, the 144,000, are not sinless and blameless because they are perfect. Instead, like all true Christians, they were bought by the blood of Christ and thus, are presented blameless to the father and forgiven for all their sins. In fact, Revelation 14:3 states that they had "been redeemed from the earth". Revelation 14:4 states that "They were purchased from among mankind and offered as first fruits". Remember, being presented blameless, is the reason Christ died for us (1 Corinthians 1:8, Ephesians 5:27, 1 Thessalonians 3:12; 5:23).

Derrick Jones: Ok, I see where you a coming from, I'll read those verses. I'm not convinced yet, but your arguments definitely need to be looked at. Thanks and God bless you.

BRC Hosts Joey and Chris: Thanks for looking into it. Just remember that if we hold to the fact that those Jews were able to abstain from sin, then Jesus did not need to die for the sins of all, since 144,000, people were able to live the perfect life that Jesus lived. God bless you Derrick.

Derrick Jones: Now that I didn't think of! That is true. Thanks, I'll continue reading. God bless you.

BRC Hosts Joey and Chris: God bless you brother.

Revelation 14:4

"They were purchased from among mankind and offered as first fruits"