John Williams asks: According to the previous questions, while you say that Matthew 24, was for their generation, isn't the coming in the clouds in reference to the second coming?

Hi John

Some Atheist exponents have made the claim that Jesus was a false prophet for to lying to the disciples, to Caiaphas, and the Sanhedrin, about coming in the clouds within their generation (Matthew 24:30; 24:34, 26:64). This Atheist claim only holds true in the futurist interpretation.

In order to understand this issue properly, we need to follow the proper rules of interpretation and let scripture interpret scripture.

In the Old Testament, "clouds" were used as a symbol that pointed to God, as the sovereign judge of the nations. This is easily seen in passages like Isaiah 19:1-2 "A prophecy against Egypt: See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear. I will stir up Egyptian against Egyptian— brother will fight against brother, neighbor against neighbor, city against city, kingdom against kingdom."

Therefore, rather than Jesus lying to them (as Atheists claim), while knowing the Old Testament extremely well, both Caiaphas and the court, understood that Jesus used this symbolism (the same words of his Father) to threaten them, by telling them that he would come to Jerusalem in judgment, and that their generation would suffer for putting him to death.

A reality that took place 37 years after Jesus' very words. In AD 70, the Roman armies marched against Jerusalem and destroyed the city and the temple.

Finally, while the "coming in the clouds" is in direct reference to the judgment that took place in AD 70, the Bible does clearly teach that Jesus will return visibly and literally a second time to judge the living and the dead (2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Peter 4:5, Hebrews 9:28, John 5:28-29). Hope this clears the issue.

Comments:

Jenny Alvarez: So then, how do you explain the whole thing of Jesus coming with his angles to gather the elect? Did this already take place too? Or is this talking about the second coming? I was taught that this was speaking of the second coming. I know you already pointed out that this was for their generation, and I agree that applying this to any other generation can only be done by manipulating the verse. But I'm having trouble understanding this. I understand that Isaiah is an allegory, and that God didn't physically go to Egypt. So when Jesus used those words, it should be understood in the same manner. But can you clarify this gathering?

BRC Hosts Joey and Chris: Hi Jenny. Very good job understanding the pattern of grammar. In our time, people tend to want to literalize everything in the Bible, and seem to ignore these rules of interpretation. They tend to fail to compare what they are reading with the same type of language used elsewhere. As to your question, people in the first century were notorious in speaking in such ways. Therefore, the first century audience would of easily understood this, and would not have pinned this to the second coming. Take a look at Luke 16:22- "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried." Here we have Lazarus, who was carried by angels to Abraham's side in paradise where God is. Therefore, the angels don't have to wait until the end of days to gather people and take them to heaven. Matthew 24:31, does not exclude the first century generation, as they all have passed away, and have been gathered just as in the case of Lazarus. These people who passed away in the first century have already been gathered and know if they are in paradise or not, just as Lazarus and the rich man understood. Jesus, in Matthew 24 was communicating this imagery to the participants of the first century, and what was said was directly about them. Their future as predicted by Jesus, happened and they are all already gathered. It doesn't make sense to say that they have not been gathered, when they are with Jesus in paradise. Jesus even told the disciples that he was going to make dwellings for them where he was going. "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you l to be with me that you also may be where I am." (John 14:3). This is the same thing that was told to the criminal who repented when he was crucified with Jesus. "Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43). When the disciples died, they went to paradise, a dwelling place where Jesus resides with those who have been gathered. A reality that anyone who dies, will be gathered to. Hope this helps.

Jenny Alvarez: Thanks, now the entire chapter makes sense. That was the missing piece of the puzzle for me. Thanks and God bless you!

John Williams: Thanks. Definitely a different view from what is taught in my church. There are so many various views. It's sometimes hard to know what to follow. My church has always held a pre-tribulational view.

BRC Hosts Joey and Chris: Not a problem Jenny. God bless you too.

BRC Hosts Joey and Chris: John, there are many views. But if you look for the contradictions that each view is presenting, you will find that one of the many views doesn't carry contradictions. For example, in a futurist view, they hold the belief that the Holy Spirit will indwell a third rebuilt temple (that is not taught in scripture), where they practice sacrifice and grain offering for the forgiveness of sin. If the Holy Spirit indwells such place, would he not deny Jesus as the sacrifice of sin?

John Williams: I never thought about that. This is something I will start looking into. God bless you.

BRC Hosts Joey and Chris: God bless you as well brother.

Isaiah 19:1-2

"A prophecy against Egypt: See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear. I will stir up Egyptian against Egyptian— brother will fight against brother, neighbor against neighbor, city against city, kingdom against kingdom."